Julian Worricker
Including after 11.00 the Five Live Report Mind Games - Scientology versus Psychiatry
Article Warning: Transcript may be upsetting to some.
BBC Radio 5 Live Report Full Programme via Sound Cloud
Transcript
BBC Radio report on Scientology Volunteer Ministers - Full Transcript via The Wayback MachineDR. MAX PEMBERTON: Hi - hi, Brian. I've just - I - I've got to just interject there because, I mean, lobotomies, certainly historically - um - psychiatry, as indeed lots of medicine, in fact lots of institution, has quite a - a shady past, but I mean, lobotomies have not been done for decades.
BRIAN DANIELS: Okay, let me stop you there, Max, because in 1999, a high-profile case of Lena Zavaroni, who, at 35 years old had been under psychiatric care for a couple of, I mean, at least ten to fifteen years, and - um - she was found to have a - an eating problem, and then she was given psychiatric drugs, it didn't really go anywhere.
Then she was given electric shock treatment in - um - Canada. That didn't work, and then she went back onto some other psychiatric drugs, and I believe it was antidepressants, which didn't seem to do it, and then in September 1999, she was - um - she undertook a lobotomy in Cardiff, under the neurosurgeon -
DR. MAX PEMBERTON: I - I -
BRIAN DANIELS: - called Brian Simpson, and then she died four weeks later.
DR. MAX PEMBERTON: Brian, you're giving me one example, which I - obviously I can't comment on because it's just one - one particular case that I'm not very familiar with.
But certainly, from - from my experience, I have never, ever come across - um - someone who's been lobotomized. Um - it's just not done anymore because there's just no kinetic indication for it. We havepharmaceutical advances and psychotherapeutic advances which means it's not needed anymore.
Avoiding The Truth
Robcamstone
- ——: DR. MAX PEMBERTON: Lobotomies have not been done for decades. BRIAN DANIELS: Makes reference to Lena Zavaroni.
- ——: DR. MAX PEMBERTON: Brian, you're giving me one example, which I - obviously I can't comment on because it's just one - one particular case that I'm not very familiar with. But certainly, from - from my experience, I have never, ever come across - um - someone who's been lobotomized. Um - it's just not done anymore because there's just no kinetic indication for it. We have pharmaceutical advances and psychotherapeutic advances which means it's not needed anymore.
- ——: ROBCAMSTONE: Yes one example that shows that lobotomies are still being done when you had falsely claimed that none had been done and even when you have been informed of the case of Lena Zavaroni you still try to make the false claim that they are not done. The Scientologists may be lying but so are you or your not as well informed on your subject as you should be.
- ——: DR. MAX PEMBERTON: continues to avoiding the truth that lobotomies are still carried out all be it under the umbrella term of Neurosurgery for Mental Disorder (NMD).
NMD or Lobotomy Just A Matter Of Semantics
RobcamstoneInfact the Neurosurgery for Mental Disorder (NMD) (aka Psychosurgery) that Lena Zavaroni was treated with was Anterior Capsulotomy which is one of the 4 types of stereotactic psychosurgery available.
It is not unreasonable for us laypeople to beleive that Neurosurgery for Mental Disorder is a lobotomy by another name after all the suffix '-otomy' is derived from the Greek suffix τόμος, -tómos, "meaning cutting, sharp, or separate" so Lobotomy, anterior cingulotomy, subcaudate tractotomy, limbic leucotomy and anterior capsulotomy are basically the same procedure done on different parts of the brain with the prefix indicating the part of the brain that is given a lesion/cut to seperate it from another part.
Just because modern Psychosurgery uses electricity/lasers to create the lesions in the brain instead of a Hammer & Orbitoclast does not mean they are not the same after all the expected outcome is still the same.
What is the expected out come? well that is unknown as even today we don't know enough about the brain.